thoughtful conservative. c-span: from? >> guest: the--the writer james... c-span: oh, jack... >> guest: yeah. c-span: james jackson kilpatrick. >> guest: yeah. yeah. i find him consistently thoughtful and--and a very principled person, and i understand that political point of view. but to me, we've been getting more and more people to the right of people that i always thought were very conservative, like kilpatrick and barry goldwater. now we got people to the right of them who seem to think that--that government should be used in a punitive way against poor people. i mean, it's not just that they're opposed to welfare. it's like, 'let's really make sure these people never get a chance to get anywhere.' i can't--it's just so mean-spirited. c-span: which cons... >> guest: and i don't think most people are like that. c-span: which conservative makes your skin crawl the most when you hear them, see them, talk to them, read them? >> guest: jesse helms sets me off pretty bad. i'm--i just find him a--a mean-spirited person. there are a few others. c-span: you talk a lot about texans in your book.